Murray Jensen joins Kevin Patton to explore dual enrollment in anatomy & physiology. From guided inquiry to the power of teacher communities, this conversation reveals why messy classrooms often yield the best results.
00:00 | Introduction
00:48 | Murray Jensen, HAPS President's Medal Laureate
02:27 | What Is Dual Enrollment, Anyway?
11:44 | Two-Word Check-In*
12:53 | Guided Inquiry, Not Guided Napping
25:51 | Concept Echo*
26:37 | No, Not Nightly Recorded Lectures
31:09 | Rigor Reality Check*
32:11 | Rigor, Range, & Real Talk
39:25 | Respect Reframe*
40:02 | Why It Matters: Heart, Head, & High School
47:55 | Slide Diet*
49:06 | Money, Mission, & a Playbook for Best Practices
54:04 | Staying Connected
* Breaks
★ If you cannot see or activate the audio player, go to: theAPprofessor.org/podcast-episode-155.html
❓ Please take the anonymous survey: theAPprofessor.org/survey
☝️ Questions & Feedback: 1-833-LION-DEN (1-833-546-6336)
✔️ Follow The A&P Professor on Twitter, Facebook, Blogger, Substack, or Instagram! @theAPprofessor
📰 Get the once-or-twice-weekly TAPP Science & Education Updates theAPprofessor.org/updates
“The classroom remains the most radical space of possibility in the academy.” (bell hooks)
Murray Jensen, HAPS President's Medal Laureate
1.5 minutes
Kevin introduces his guest, Murray Jensen, a Professor of Biology Teaching and Learning at the University of Minnesota. He highlights Murray’s research focus on teaching and learning in human anatomy and physiology, his emphasis on POGIL and cooperative learning, and his many awards, including the 2024 HAPS President’s Medal. Kevin also notes Murray’s warm reputation as a mentor and colleague, framing the conversation as both professional and deeply personal.
What is Dual Enrollment, Anyway?
9 minutes
Murray explains how dual enrollment works in Minnesota through the College in the Schools program, which currently involves 28 high schools and 1,100 students. He emphasizes the importance of professional development and the community of practice that keeps teachers connected, supported, and inspired. Kevin shares his own experiences with dual enrollment, reflecting on how it shaped his career and outlook as an educator.
Guided Inquiry, Not Guided Napping
13 minutes
This segment digs into pedagogy. Murray describes his approach to selecting teachers, focusing on passion and spark, and how he encourages them to adopt guided inquiry and cooperative group learning. He shares stories about the challenges of letting go of control in the classroom, and how productive messiness often leads to deeper learning. Kevin adds his own examples, reinforcing that guided inquiry transforms classrooms into vibrant, memorable learning spaces.
No, Not Nightly Recorded Lectures
4.5 minutes
Murray makes the case against online-only dual enrollment models that rely on recorded lectures. He insists that learning must remain face-to-face to preserve rigor and connection. The conversation turns to the politics of funding and the pressure to push students through college more quickly. Both Kevin and Murray stress that dual enrollment should not be about speed but about helping students grow and make informed choices about their futures.
Rigor, Range, & Real Talk
7 minutes
Kevin raises the skepticism some faculty hold toward dual enrollment. Murray responds by acknowledging the range of rigor but emphasizing that many high school programs are every bit as challenging—if not more so—than their college equivalents. He reflects on his path into dual enrollment, the importance of maintaining standards, and the need to respect teachers while navigating the politics of education.
Why It Matters: Heart, Head, & High School
7.5 minutes
Murray shares the personal side of his work, recalling visits to high schools and the deep respect he has for teachers and students alike. He explains how writing curriculum, providing tools, and supporting teachers keeps him motivated. The discussion highlights the passion, respect, and community at the heart of dual enrollment, even as financial pressures loom.
Money, Mission, & a Playbook for Best Practices
5 minutes
Looking to the future, Murray describes his vision for creating a best practices guide for dual enrollment in anatomy and physiology. He underscores the importance of focusing on core concepts, guided inquiry, and cooperative learning while moving away from passive slide-based teaching. Kevin and Murray agree that active learning consistently outperforms lecture-heavy approaches, especially in entry-level science courses.
Links
Teaching to Transgress by bell hooks (book)
geni.us/TDCa6G
Murray Jensen (U of M faculty page)
AandP.info/jd1
Human Anatomy & Physiology Society (organization)
theAPprofessor.org/haps
POGIL Project: Process Oriented Guided Inquiry Learning (organization)
pogil.org
University of Minnesota College in the Schools Program (program info
cce.umn.edu/college-in-the-schools
National Association of Biology Teachers (organization)
nabt.org
Foundations in physiology: an introductory course using the core concepts (article in Advances in Physiology Education)
AandP.info/zkx
★ List of TAPP episodes and related resource related to this episode's topics
Concept Lists Help Students Build Conceptual Frameworks
Big Ideas: The Essential Concepts of A&P | Episode 35
Running Concept Lists Help Students Make Connections | Episode 8
★ List of TAPP podcasts (sortable list with titles, links to episode pages, and topics)
theAPprofessor.org/podcast-list.html
★ TAPP Jukebox (a fun way to browse and play TAPP episodes)
theAPprofessor.org/podcast-jukebox.html
People
Production: Aileen Park (announcer), Andrés Rodriguez (theme composer, recording artist), Kevin Patton (writer, editor, producer, host).
Not People
Robotic (AI) audio leveling/processing by Auphonic.com, initial draft transcript by Rev.com, and the content, organization, spelling, grammar, style, etc., of this episode and notes are assisted by various bots, such as ChatGPT, Grammarly, and QuillBot.
If the hyperlinks here are not active, go to TAPPradio.org to find the episode page.
★ More details at the episode page: theAPprofessor.org/podcast-episode-155.html
★ Transcript available in the transcript box: theAPprofessor.org/podcast-episode-155.html
★ Need help accessing resources locked behind a paywall? Check out this advice from Episode 32 to get what you need! my-ap.us/paywall
Tools & Resources
★ TAPP Science & Education Updates: theAPprofessor.org/updates
Follow The A&P Professor on Facebook, Mastodon, TikTok,LinkedIn, Blogger, Substack, or Instagram @theAPprofessor
The A&P Professor® and Lion Den® are registered trademarks of Lion Den Inc. (Kevin Patton)
b
Click here to listen to this episode—or access the detailed notes and transcript.
